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Greencastle, Indiana ~ Monday, October 13, 2008
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Rewarded for attending school?
Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008, at 9:50 AM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
I covered a Greencastle Community School Corp. meeting last night.
The thing about that meeting that left me scratching my head was a presentation on the high school's final exam opt-out program.
Now I don't know about you, but when I was in school I didn't have the choice to opt for anything except what I wanted for lunch.
The premise of this program is that students with exemplary attendance have a choice to opt out of taking their final exams. Students who don't quite have the attendance record to do that but haven't missed too many classes can still have their names put in drawings for cash or are invited to lunches from restaurants such as Subway.
I was kind of taken aback by this. We're bribing our kids to go to class? Really?
When I was in high school, I went because it was expected of me and I knew that. I went because not going to school would have resulted in groundings from the telephone, school sporting events and parties.
I went because I respected my teachers and my parents, and their disappointment was a punishment worse than anything else I could have imagined.
You know what my reward was for going to school? My parents let me live in their home and they paid my expenses. At the end of the year I was recognized with awards for my classroom performance, and during the year my name was in the paper when I made the honor roll.
I understand wanting attendance numbers at the high school to look good. I know the state looks at those numbers and that if they're low, it's a red flag that something isn't working at the school.
But is throwing money, food and the prospect of not having to take big tests at the students really the way to accomplish that goal? Is that preparing kids for real life?
You can't opt out of a final in college. I was a good student in high school and I studied a lot, especially for final exams. Even with that foundation, college rocked my world. I was not at all prepared for the amount of time and energy hitting the books for a college exam took.
Isn't allowing students to not take tests derailing the learning of study habits they're going to need later?
I show up at my job and do the best I can every day because I get a paycheck that I need to support my family. But I also do it because I take pride in my work, and I believe my work ethic is rooted in how I was taught in middle school, high school and college.
I can see some benefits to this program, I really can. But I'm just not sure it's a good idea overall. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Made almost the same comments in a letter to the editor last year.
This is a dumb idea and tied to funding formulas, not what's good for the students.
As I said then, all those academic excellence signs posted near the school are getting a little dated.
Right on FAW! It is a shame that a school who has had a good academic past puts funding ahead of the wellbeing of students. Maybe it's time to look for better school administrators. I count it as blessing that my children are no longer in this school system.
As a parent of a student at Greencastle High School and soon to be 2 students, I can say that when I heard this I thought.....Really?
If that would have been the same for me I never would have missed a day! Finals are supposed to be a test of what you learned and the beginnings of life as students learn that they sometimes need to take time out and study in. I could not believe that they could get out of them if they did not miss school.
I thought you did not miss school because you did not want to turn out to be a....well for lack of a better word...moron.
All of these arguments are valid and have been taken into consideration. The bottom line is that school are held accountable for student attendance. We spend hours trying to decide what we can do to improve this issue -- hours after our normal work day. Maybe the writer of this column was able to motivate herself with the help of her parents. Unfortunately, that is no longer the norm. Now we live in a society where many students are given whatever they want as long as they stay out of their parents' hair. When teachers and administrators try to call parents to discuss poor attendance, we are often met with resistance. I have been stood up a number of times for parent teacher conferences by parents of students with attendance issues. The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. It's time for parents and school systems to stop blaming each other and work together to do what is best for students. This job is not easy; and reading about how crappy people who have not ever tried to teach think we do on a daily basis really wears us down. Luckily, there are a few great students and parents around to keep us motivated. Our local newspaper certainly doesn't.
Outragededucator perhaps it is time for you to find another occupation. Many people have jobs that are not easy including newspaper editors and writers.
Schools are held accountable for attendance but that does not mean our students should be bribed out of learning to take tests. By doing so you are not solving the problem of giving students what they want, you and your administrators are enabling it.
Blackbear -- punishing students for poor attendance doesn't work, parents do not always support good attendance, and according to you rewarding good attendance is enabling. How do you propose we solve this problem? Criticizing is easy, coming up with solutions is difficult. As for Greencastle no longer being a good school -- I went to a bad school and I have done observations at bad schools. Greencastle High School is not a bad school.
Who said GHS was a bad school? I believe what has been stated is simply that paying kids to attend school and not teaching them to take final exams is not good for students.
Blackbear -- can you not read your own post? You said that you count your blessings that your kids are no longer in the system. How else are we supposed to take that? Again, these are all valid arguments(I don't completely disagree). Every negative stated in the column and on the blogs came up during the faculty's long debate about the opt out. After MUCH discussion, we decided to give it a shot anyway. This decision was not made on a whim by just one or two people. For all of the reasons mentioned and a few others, the opt out may be discontinued after next semester. I just cannot understand all the school bashing that occurs in the paper and in blog comments. I'm still waiting for all the critics to come up with a magical solution that works. Any ideas?
I don't see anyone calling GHS a bad school. Perhaps adminstrators should admit they gave it a good try and move on. After all, Northview where Mr. Church brought the program from, discontinued it as soon as he left.
Wow MB, how many times are you going to write that statement? This is at least the third time I'm aware of. What you said may be exactly what happens after next semester, but what do we try next? You always criticize Mr. Church's plan, but what's yours?
My plan is that you teach the students, and you test them without paying them to show up, and that way you prepare them for college and for life.
I wish it were that easy. I would also love for all the school critics to come give it a shot.
I was a teacher in a high school. I have a masters degree in secondary education. And this plan is a bad idea because it's more about funding formulas than the kids.
I have a great amount of respect for most teachers because I know what they're asked to be and do.
What is so wrong with this plan is that it isn't really about inspiring kids to come to school so they can learn. It's about getting them there so that GHS can maximize it's per diem rate from the state. So it's not about kids. Its about adults looking for an easy way.
Testing in school is important because it teaches students that someone cares about what you know and don't know. Believe it or not, employers and colleges expect you to know something when you come to work and graduate and don't reward people for showing up.
I gave it a shot. It was administrators who pushed garbage like this that sent me looking elsewhere.
FAW -- First, the academic excellence signs just haven't been updated. Our students have won several state championships since the last update, and GHS continually sends more teams to academic state competitions than almost any school in the state. I'm not sure why the sign hasn't been updated, but our students have continued to do very well. Your second post makes excellent points that we will revisit after next semester; but like I keep asking, what do you suggest we try? This issue is not just about funding, and the assumption that we only care about money is insulting. I know my students do better when they come to school consistently, and I really enjoy watching students graduate. Many students who do not graduate have serious attendance issues. Teachers also give valid tests all year that prepare our students for college and the work force. Do you all think final exams are the only difficult tests students ever encounter? I'm not usually a blog stalker, but I am in for the long haul on this topic.
What is this teaching the kids? I don't get to opt of my presentation at work. I don't get an extra day off because i was on time and didn't take any sick days for a year.
I was never a good test taker in high school but I'm glad I had to suffer through them. It made me realize I had to prepare myself and get ready. I would never survive some of the presentations and walk-throughs I have to lead now.
We should be preparing our kids for careers.
I'm still baffled by the impression that the only thing schools do to prepare students for the future is give final exams.
Outragededucator;
You don't read very well, do you? Or... you just don't get the point that when you reward a thing, you get more of it. In this case, you're rewarding is sitting in a chair, not what is learned while sitting in it.
Sorry you can't see that.
You have all convinced me. No one attending GHS will ever amount to anything because we have allowed students to opt out of final exams. Sorry Lilly, National Merit scholars, etc.; your hopes of being successful in college are all gone. We have done you all a huge disservice by preparing many of you to score well on the SATs and AP exams. I guess not taking final exams will also negate all of those vocational opportunities available at Area 30. Did I mention that many of our students already take college classes before they finish at GHS? I guess they will also be lost in the abyss of no exams:(
The reason is funding.
Our schools have a money crisis(Thanks GWB). When we address the money issue we will not have to address the other. Find out where your elected officials stand and vote for the ones who will fully fund education. The ballot box is where the power is.
It is a shame that none of the benefits were mentioned in the article. 3 of my kids go to GHS, two were elligable to opt out while the other took theirs. The two that opted out Job Shadowed for those two days at businesses here in town. The experience was good for them to get an insite on what they may want to go to college for. I am not saying opting out is the way to go but in my case , it was a good learning experience for my kids. It is easy to critisize what you dont really know about. Call and talk to Mr. Church, he is very approachable and more than willing to look at other options. The school as a whole made the decision to try this program. It was not just one person. Quit focusing on the negative and look for a positive once in a while. I am one of the parents who do care about my kids and thier education but am openminded enough to see other points of view. I am also one of those parents who goes to the conferences and volunteer at the school. Get involved and your eyes will be opened to the "real" deal.
I have heard of teachers allowing students who have consistently earned A's in their class to opt out of final exams. Now that is an incentive that rewards a related behavior as opposed to keeping a seat warm. Any teachers do that?
WOW...there is an angry educator in your county.
We stopped doing that in Clay County when the kids would go in take a test and leave and then a couple of them had wrecks. Brought liability on the schools part to a question.
I have to agree, I am not rewarded by good performance at work with time off. School prepares kids for the future and the work force. I do not think this program is realisitc.
When I attended GHS, there were several teachers who used the opt-out program (although it wasn't school-wide). The thing is: most of the students who get to opt-out of the final exam would have aced it anyway, because they were there every day and paying attention. It is supposed to shine a light on the academic excellence of those students and hopefully inspire those who do not feel the need to attend class. And its not like there's only ONE test a year. Maybe it doesnt seem like the greatest idea, but like someone stated before, some students don't have the support of their family to prepare them for the "real world," and they have to depend on the school system. If they are not in class, this cannot happen. I haven't heard any other ideas that would actually work with the students. And besides, how is it not preparing them for life after high school to show that hard work pays off??
I don't see why this is a big deal. Can the school draw money for the kids if the miss on test day? Aren't they shooting themselves in their own feet?
I would not have been motivated by watching others not taking a test.
I find it amusing that GHS has completed 3 semesters of opt out and people are just now getting bent about it? Where were all of the naysayers when the idea was presented at the school board meeting during the second semester of 2007? Also, with the new testing requirements about to begin for the high school beginning with the class of 2012 (this fall's freshmen) the opt out will most likely be gone anyway. Students will be unable to opt out of state-mandated testing.
BTW-it's not about money. GHS isn't raking in big bucks because there are warm bodies in seats. It's about accountability. PL 221 mandates attendance as a factor in the school's "report card." One area of concern at GHS was attendance rate. That is a stated goal as published on the DOE website. Perhaps if the state went after the parents who can't make their kids come to school, GHS wouldn't need an opt-out policy.
I agree cub. Heaven forbid anyone actually take the time to help make an informed decision. Its much easier to just complain about it later and claim to know whats best when you really have no idea what is going on.
Being a warm body in a seat is hardly hard work!
No, but most have stipulations that you have to have a certain grade and attendance rate (which are directly related) in order to take advantage of the program. They don't just say "If you come to class every day and are failing you don't have to take the final."
i have a profound respect for outragededucator...she influenced me a great deal when I attended GHS...as far as this opt-out program is concerned, colleges do the same thing just on a class-by-class basis, just as GHS used to do as greengirl44 mentioned...but the fact is, concerning this program either having or not having it will not change some of the children, or their parent's view on attendance...the kids may be more likely to attend, but what do they do while in attendance? I am not there, so I can't say, but I would assume (yes i know the adage about assuming) that the ones this program is put in place for, who are affected by it, aren't doing a great deal of paying attention regardless of the place of their person...this is no reflection on the teacher, nor is is money related (even though the school systems do receive their budget based on student attendance among other things...) this is a reflection on the parents of the children as outragededucator said, as well as the kids themselves who are perfectly capable of understanding the importance of attendance ..being callow is no longer an acceptable excuse.. the only solution is to give the kids every opportunity, beyond that, it is their problem when it comes time to get into college or find a job and must explain why they were absent and/or had bad grades...
I graduated from high school (in a neighboring county) in 1975. If we had at least an A- average in our classes, we did not have to take final exams. Consequently, I did not have to take final exams while in high school. After high school, I went on to earn a BA and a graduate degree. I have been gainfully employed since 1979. I think it's safe to say that I have not been negatively affected by not taking final exams in high school.
I don't fully understand the opt-out issue since I don't currently have High Schoolers however what I have read here ties it to attendance. I have heard about the lack of concern from the parents in some cases. If it is an attendance issue why not hold the parents responsible? After making them accountable for their kids actions or lack thereof then they might decide that the consequences of not caring is worse than taking steps to ensure the proper responsibility is happening. When I was in school(far to long ago to remember alot) if I got in trouble at school my parents knew about it before I even got home. They did not ask my side of the story. They had got all they needed from the school. Not only did I get punished at school I also got punished at home. Accountability should lie entirely with the parents. School is not intended to teach responsibility or how to cope with life. That is 100% in the court of the parents!!
Couldn't it be a two part program where attendance and grades go hand in hand. If you have a kid that's there just to opt out an educator would know by the results they see everyday. So maybe if the grades aren't there they can't opt out. I don't know exactly how the whole process is supposed to work, but it makes since to me. No I don't get special privlages at work, but these are school kids and if they are there everyday making the grades recognizing them in this fasion isn't far fetched....just needs tweeked.
This article as written does not accurately portray life in the schools these days, or life itself for many years as it is actually more about the editor as it is the policy. It is no wonder the banner cannot put out an accurate or realistic story. I do not know where some of you work, but when I worked, we were given incentives for working hard. I believe they were called pay checks and raises. No not everyone qualified to take advantage of the raise incentive. Attendance was and still is a problem employers face. What do you critics of this attempt to improve attendance suggest as a solution?
"Bribing kids to go to school" is a knee jerk comment of an uninformed writer. The same could be said of a job. Stop bribing workers with a pay check, vacation, and benefits and see where that gets you. Just as you earn your compensation, students can be compensated for their hard work with being able to opted out of a test. Kudos to the students who are able to take advantage of this.
Greengirl44 and outragededucator are dead on with their comments.
Whatever happened to the fact that if you didn't receive a passing grade, you didn't pass to the next grade or maybe not even graduate. We need to get back to the basic principals: show up, do the work, ask questions, take responsibility for your own education, and shake in your boots when you come close to getting an F. Students need to take the initiative. Teachers can only do so much; parents can only do so much; but, the student can do it all if we don't lower the bar.
After reading the editor's notes in today's paper, I feel like I need to make a clarification. At no time did I feel like Jamie Barrand was attacking teachers. Others(FAW and blackbear)made negative comments about the school that were not related to the original article. Yes, I fought back against those comments and will continue to do so. I appreciate and fully understand the purpose of blogs.