DePauw asks city to close College Ave. between Hanna and Olive streets

Tuesday, February 19, 2019
Looking north on College Avenue toward Hanna Street, traffic can be seen moving along Hanna. DePauw University has made a request to the city to close College Avenue between Hanna and Olive streets to extend the pedestrian corridor known as Burkhart Walk.
Banner Graphic/Eric Bernsee

Seeking to extend the campus pedestrian corridor known as Burkhart Walk that runs north and south from Seminary Street to Hanna Street, DePauw University has asked the City of Greencastle to permanently close a portion of College Avenue.

Mayor Bill Dory said he has received a request from DePauw, seeking to close College Avenue between Hanna and Olive streets, effectively extending the pedestrian corridor by creating a new section between the Julian Math and Science Center and Lilly Physical Education and Recreation Center on the west and the Performing Arts Center on the east.

Both Hanna and Olive streets would remain open to east-west through traffic.

If approved, the proposed pedestrian corridor would remain wide enough for city fire trucks to navigate and large enough to accommodate any necessary use of the aerial truck, the mayor told the Banner Graphic.

Dory mentioned the request during his mayor's report during the February City Council meeting. No action has been taken on the request.

Back in the 1990s, the city closed the portion of College Avenue between Seminary and Hanna streets at the university's request, eliminating what was seen as a dangerous, congested situation with parking along the west side of the street and students crossing back and forth in a heavily traveled area between East College and the Roy O. West Library.

That request produced a split but favorable vote of the City Council and later spawned a lawsuit over the planning and zoning process that was ultimately dismissed.

Councilman Steve Fields asked about ownership of the properties within the area in question this time.

"As far as we know, this does not involve DePauw acquiring any new property?" Fields asked. "We're just talking about property that DePauw owns that this work is going to happen on."

That's correct, the mayor said, noting that College Avenue, is owned by the city, of course, and all the property that fronts that section of College Avenue is owned by DePauw.

"That's what I was getting at," Fields acknowledged.

"So there's no other property owner along there," Mayor Dory assured of that portion of College Avenue that lies between Hanna and Olive.

"Given that there's going to be a lot of stuff going on on the DePauw campus over the next couple years," Dory said, alluding to other planned projects, "I'd like to schedule a work session to let DePauw come in, let their engineers come in and allow Council to learn about the projects and ask questions on a little-less-formal basis than a normal Council meeting."

Dory said Tuesday that the Council work session is set for 6:30 p.m. Thursday in the conference room at City Hall.

The additional construction activity scheduled at DePauw to which the mayor referred includes the university's plans to replace all underground utilities in the Locust-Olive street area in preparation for new dormitories to be built in the south quad.

In advance of that, new pipes for heating and cooling will be run this spring along with a new waterline to connect with the city service line for providing fire protection and general water use to DePauw.

Tony Robertson, director of Facilities Care and Space Management at DPU, told the Board of Works last week, that "it's on us to repair Locust Street, wherever we might damage it, carrying on a process we've undertaken the last five or six years."

As promised, DePauw repaved Hanna Street following the construction of the Hoover Dining Hall in 2016 and redid four blocks surrounding the Robert Bottoms Alumni Center on Seminary Street after it was completed last fall.

During the upcoming project, DePauw will also widen Olive Street, cutting into its own adjacent property to add enough space for parking along both sides of the street and to accommodate tour buses that often accompany groups and individuals performing at the adjacent Green Center for the Performing Arts.

The project will include work on Locust Street between Olive and Howard streets with four pipes to be installed beneath the west lane of the Locust Street pavement.

Work is expected to commence on or about April 28, it was noted. The new dormitory is expected to be ready for first-year students by the fall semester of 2020.

The Board of Works gave preliminary approval to a memorandum of understanding between the university and the city for the underground utilities work and any repairs that it will necessitate.

"At no cost to the city, right?" Board of Works member Trudy Selvia questioned.

"Right," City Attorney Laurie Hardwick responded.

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  • *

    I have full confidence that the Greencastle Common Council will bow before their DePauw masters and do what they are "asked to do".

    It sounds to me like DePauw University should just build a wall around their campus to keep out those they don't want.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 9:45 AM
  • All DePauw has to do is ask and they shall receive!!

    -- Posted by Falcon9 on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 10:21 AM
  • It's becoming apparent that DePauw University is wanting to have a "closed" campus in Greencastle.

    Years ago, a lot of their future problems would have been averted if, when they tore down Bowman Gymnasium, they had built a multi-story parking garage on the site. This would have allowed ample parking for all their facilities present and future. But no, I was told, "Who (someone to donate to the project) would want their name put on a parking garage"?

    So there you have it. More removal of property (streets, houses, buildings, etc.) in Greencastle, for whose benefit?

    DePauw University

    -- Posted by Lookout on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 10:52 AM
  • Anything DePauw wants, you can be your boots the city will give it to them as always.

    -- Posted by becker on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 1:08 PM
  • I for one have no issues living in a college town and respect them. I am sure DePauw University brings in a lot of money to our city.

    -- Posted by Nit on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 2:46 PM
  • *

    NIT - Ever done a cost/benefit analysis? I am going to guess that would be no.

    DePauw University is a NON-PROFIT. So all those buildings they own... no property tax is collected on any of that. All those Greek houses... no property tax is collected on that. Property taxes are the primary funding source of local government.

    All the traffic that they bring in... most of those people are from out of town/state and don't pay excise tax to help pay for the roads. How many of those college kids are spending money locally, other than Starbucks and Walmart? How many DePauw alumni have come back here to start businesses and invest in Greencastle?

    Besides, the problem isn't with their existence. It is with their seeming domination of all things local, especially local government and their appeasement in favor of DePauw.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 4:06 PM
  • *

    dreadpirateroberts - I'd love to chat as a young DePauw graduate from Chicago who chose to stay in Greencastle and start a business that not only brings in hundreds of thousands in revenue but also supports other businesses around town.

    Lots of friends locally with DePauw connects who live, work, and play in Putnam county. You're way off base if you don't think DePauw is a major economic benefit to Greencastle. As much, if not more, than any other major employer here.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this request to just shut down a street for vehicles? They already own all of the land around this road. How on Earth can this be a negative situation for the city.

    Either way, if you want to affect some change in person and not behind your screen name feel free to look me up. I'd love to learn more about what you do to generate revenue for Putnam county and add value to our community.

    -- Posted by Vince Aguirre on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 4:45 PM
  • dreadpirateroberts To follow on Vince’s comments on two points: First, DePauw alumni have invested in Greencastle, and in a big way, with Bridges, Taphouse, Almost Home, more property on IN St, a new bakery in the works, Tiger Point, just to name a few. Second, the Greek Houses are NOT owned by DePauw, but by separate corporations which I’m pretty sure pay property taxes.

    -- Posted by cwurster on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 8:10 PM
  • cwurster: the Greek houses do not pay property taxes in Putnam County. Look it up on the county GIS website.

    -- Posted by Ben Dover on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 8:18 PM
  • *

    @Ben Dover- How do you feel about Tax abatement for local factories? Just trying to get a feel if you're anti-DePauw or anti-free rides for organizations that directly impact our local economy.

    -- Posted by Vince Aguirre on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 8:48 PM
  • I am strongly for the city to close this portion of street. My family lives one block from campus and uses Locust, Hanna and Seminary streets daily. DePauw is highly congested with student pedestrian traffic various times of the day and many, if not all students, have no common knowledge or street smarts to look for oncoming traffic. I have come so close to hitting a student because they weren’t paying attention and walked right out in front of me or were looking down at their cell phone.

    The only negative I see in closing the portion of the street is the loss of a few parking spaces along the front entrance of the Lilly Center and math building.

    -- Posted by bcqmom on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 10:07 PM
  • DePauw is looking out for the safety of their students and staff. If you don't like living in a college town, then move. Does DePauw have some entitled and clueless students? Sure, as do all colleges. I am happy to welcome their students into the schools as mentors, Castle volunteers who teach our students and share their expertise, and the teaching staff whose connections and background knowledge have helped different organizations in our town. Their science departments alone have put together science kits for the teachers in the elementary schools, and are working with the GHS PTO to get a special water device for the high school science classes' experiments. The performing arts have done amazing work with the Middle and High School students in the Shakespeare in the Schools program in all four county schools, not to mention giving our communities access to world-class speakers and experiences. I, for one, am grateful for the enriching experiences that our little university brings to our community.

    -- Posted by Moretothestory on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 11:20 PM
  • Agree completely with bcqmom. Most locals avoid traveling through the campus area during the school year due to the pedestrian congestion that occur multiple times each day. Clearly there are other thoroughfares that exist that won’t cause any inconvenience to locals.

    -- Posted by 3m50 on Wed, Feb 20, 2019, at 11:45 PM
  • the city does do what DePauw ask! for the most part! closing that street is a good idea, those buildings have a ton of foot traffic crossing the streets/ or j walking, as it's called. DePauw does bring a ton of money to certain establishments and smaller amount of money to all local businesses. most of the downtown is owned by DPU Alum! helping make our town beautiful and a lot of things we wouldnt have if they werent here. BUT, a few years ago when they bought up all these houses around campus and made living quarters and parking lots, took a lot of tax money from Greencastle. funny thing is they stuck it too people living around the campus or the whole town, i am not sure. my tax bill on my business went up 1200 that year. i called throwing a fit and they told me business was good around Putnam Co and 28 businesses had been sold for above value. i immediately said, businesses are selling for pennies on the dollar. they said i was wrong and could come and get the print out for myself. so i marched myself right up there and got their paperwork. i took it straight to my bank lender and asked if he could tell me how business is booming and selling for above value. all 28 business sales was DPU buying homes and property around campus. living quarters and parking lots. those properties took income from taxes, so they stuck those taxes on us. how could a billion dollar institution be called a Methodist Non Profit college and be expected to not pay any taxes for the land they take off the tax market? it's bullshit what all these rich corporations get away with, while they stick multi millions in the bank, WE, the AMERICAN WORKER, pays for all their up keep, while they pocket millions and 70% of the American WORKER, doesnt even have $400 in the bank. when will it end

    -- Posted by badboy46120 on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 12:11 AM
  • Vince: I'm not anti-DePauw in the least. Greencastle minus DePauw = Brazil or Spencer. Just clearing up a misconception that Greek houses pay property taxes.

    -- Posted by Ben Dover on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 8:35 AM
  • Vince: I forgot to mention the tax-abatement factories still pay 10's of thousands of property taxes per year, even with the abatements. DePauw buildings pay zero. (Still not anti-DePauw, just stating facts!)

    -- Posted by Ben Dover on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 9:08 AM
  • *

    Vince / Ewurster -

    lets try this again. (why is it so hard for people to comprehend?)

    I said that the Greencastle Common Council does the bidding of DePauw. That is a sentiment shared by a majority of people in town. My opinion. Disagree w/me? Ok.

    I said it sounds like DePauw should just put up a wall ...its called humor.

    NIT said that he is happy DePauw is here and that they (the university) bring in a lot of money to the city.

    I challenged that idea. DePauw University and the Greek houses are NON-PROFIT and pay ZERO property tax, while eating up real estate, thereby increasing tax pressure on everyone else. Property taxes are the primary funding source for local government. This is a negative impact, in my opinion. Your opinion may differ.

    Then I asked two questions - b/c I don't readily know the answer. You started a business... maybe some others. Okay. Thanks for answering my question. But without an actual cost/benefit analysis being done - your opinion (w/anecdotes) is as valuable as mine.

    That you don't understand the difference between TAX EXEMPTIONS and TAX ABATEMENTS tells me that you may not have gotten as much value as you think out of your lauded DePauw degree. (Thank you to Ben Dover for the assist.)

    I said I don't have a problem with their existence - I have a problem with their seeming domination of all things local, especially local government.

    As for this - "Either way, if you want to affect some change in person and not behind your screen name feel free to look me up. I'd love to learn more about what you do to generate revenue for Putnam county and add value to our community." - LOL, sorry smug college boy, but who I am and what I do is none of your concern. As for what value I bring... I ask the questions and get the dialogue going. Just think of me as the conservative-minded conscience sitting on the city's shoulder.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 10:22 AM
  • Has a traffic study been conducted on the street which Depauw wants to close? How many vehicles travel this street on a daily basis and at what hours of the day and what days when school is in session?

    -- Posted by Lookout on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 10:31 AM
  • Agree that the Common Council seems dominated by DePauw, but on the other hand, I don’t see many others stepping forward to run. Most races are uncontested. Don’t complain unless you are willing to step forward and do something about it, like running for Common Council.

    -- Posted by 3m50 on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 11:59 AM
  • My name is Adam Cohen and I am a DePauw employee and the President of the city council I represent Ward one. I wanted to weigh in and ask a question. But I also would like to hear from people directly as I have done before my Cell is 765.721.3168 and my email is acohen@cityofgreencastle.com. Feel free to contact me no matter where you stand.

    Anyone who knows me or heard me talk at council knows I am not scared to take my employer to task when they are wrong. But I also see what DePauw brings. It is strange having a foot in both camps. Let me clarify a few items then ask a question

    DePauw as a whole does not pay property tax they do pay a little bit on things like the Inn and DePauw. The greek houses also pay no property tax but it is probably a wash because if we did not have them the school would need more dorms and space to house the students.

    Companies that have abatement pay a sliding scale that goes up over time. They are also asked about their commitment to supporting the community and are asked to ensure Putnam County hospital is an in-network provider on their insurance.

    The reality is Greencastle has a lot of property that is not taxed which is a problem for the city. Probably 45 -55percent of taxable property falls under non-profit. That includes not only DePauw but Ivy Tech, Churches, and all of the Greencastle Schools even though all of the students are not from Greencastle. Finally in includes county property like the courthouse. I bet we are one of the highest in the state but do not know that as a fact. But it does not matter because in the end that is cards we have and all those institutions are going to be here for a long time.

    Depending on where you sit DePauw brings more than jobs to the city. However, there is also a valid point that can be made that it taxes city services and causes problems. It is really not fair to anyone to say DePauw is just a business. We are at least in part a college town and will be for a long time so the question is how to maximize for everyone.

    So now the question about College Street. Here is my question and in reality, it is the only question right now. Will closing College street in front of the Lilly Center and Performing Arts center help, hurt or be neutral to the year-round CITIZENS of Greencastle. DePauw has said they will widen Olive street and make some much-needed drainage improvements. But we will lose the city street. So I ask and feel free to contact me or write here and tell me what are the pros and cons of this one issue are

    As to the larger issue of property tax and city services that is for another day. In fact, I have had some people pulling those numbers since early January I hope to have a report soon

    I do want to hear all sides. I have gone from opposed to not sure and now not sure if I should vote at all. But I will bring all sides to the table at council meetings.

    -- Posted by Adam Cohen on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 12:52 PM
  • You NEED to vote. Every time you abstain you disenfranchise those who elected you. You have a history of abstaining way too often....like during the recent school board appointment. Just because you know someone or work for someone or their spouse does not mean you should abstain. If everyone on the council did that, we would seldom have the entire council voting on an issue. That’s the decision you made when you ran for a council position....you might have to vote against someone you work with or someone you work for. You decision is based upon what is best for your constituents. The ONLY time you should abstain would be if you stand to make a personal gain or loss from the outcome of a vote.

    -- Posted by 3m50 on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 1:17 PM
  • *

    Mr. Cohen - thank you for your input and willingness to look at all aspects. It is appreciated.

    As for the NON-PROFITS getting TAX EXEMPT status - that is something that needs to be taken up in Indianapolis, I believe.

    In my opinion, all non-profits, including churches, social organizations, and even DePauw University (excluding community elementary/jr high/high schools) should have their property holdings taxed.

    I don't think 1% is too unreasonable of an assessment to help pay for city services/amenities.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 1:19 PM
  • You are correct we have no authority to tax them. I am not sure if it is Federal or State law that prevents us. I am not sure how I stand on taxing them as I have not done enough research on it. Since it is not an option council the mayor and clerk-treasurer have spent more time on other ways to provide quality services. My reason for the research is to better understand the situation in the city just so we understand who we are.

    You did ask a question I did not answer and that was has anyone looked at the cost benefits. Several years ago one was done on the economic impact of Depauw. It is outdated and the methods that were used were questioned by people on all sides. It is hard to judge and really ends up on where you sit on the value of the programs they offer. In terms of hard dollars, it varies by business. Sorry I do not have a better answer

    -- Posted by Adam Cohen on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 1:28 PM
  • *

    dreadpirateroberts - I'm well aware of the difference between tax abatement and tax exemption and if you googled my name you'd see I sit on the economic development commission. However, if you can't comprehend the financial impact of 2,100 students, countless jobs, and millions of dollars invested in the community by alumni then I don't know what to tell you.

    As Been Dover said "Greencastle minus DePauw = Brazil or Spencer". So yes, while DePauw may not pay property tax it's clear that there is a positive financial impact that their presence brings to the community.

    You may not believe it, but I'm not some DePauw fanboy. Many at DePauw would say I am anti DePauw. However, to dislike them because they don't pay property tax is absurd.

    Also, I'm not a boy, please don't attempt to discredit or disrespect me if you're not willing to discuss in person.

    -- Posted by Vince Aguirre on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 2:18 PM
  • Is it truly a Methodist non profit? With a muslim chaplain?

    -- Posted by taylortwp on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 3:24 PM
  • There is a United Methodist Chaplain. I am sure they have chaplains for all major religions, as most colleges do.

    -- Posted by Moretothestory on Thu, Feb 21, 2019, at 11:31 PM
  • We have several chaplains on campus. Our non-profit comes from being an educational school, not a church. DePauw like many schools was founded by a religious group. I do not know our current official relationship with the Methodist church.

    But I work in the spiritual life office with mostly our Jewish population. I can tell you first hand we work hard with students of all faiths and no faiths. Our Muslim chaplain who has a name Sami Aziz does a great job working with people of all faiths. As anyone who serves in that role should

    3m50 just to be clear that was the ONLY time I have abstained were I was not legally prevented from voting. (I actually can not ever remember abstaining other than that time) I felt for several reasons I needed to. In hindsight, I realize that the perception it created was a poor one and I should have voted.

    Last night meeting on College street was a good one. I am sure the banner will cover it and we can talk after that article. But if I may ask again how does closing College street hurt the city. I know the positives but is their a negative I am missing

    -- Posted by Adam Cohen on Fri, Feb 22, 2019, at 3:03 PM
  • Councilman Cohen,

    To jog your memory, check the minutes of May, 2014. I assure you there are others, I just don’t have time to research them. In your defense, you have probably voted on thousands of resolutions (most of which are council rubber stamp votes), but my point is, you have abstained on some critical votes when it involved your employer or people you are acquainted with.

    I just wanted to bring it to your attention when you said you were considering not voting on this critical issue.

    -- Posted by 3m50 on Fri, Feb 22, 2019, at 5:36 PM
  • Closing college hurts the people attending events on campus with the lack of handicap parking. I would like to see an underground parking structure on the Bowman site several stories deep. Still maintain some green space.

    DePauw President talked of Communiversity which rings hollow when students for the most part must live in Campus housing. Citizens who could rent houses and apartments are losing out on revenue.

    -- Posted by johnn on Fri, Feb 22, 2019, at 6:05 PM
  • To Greencastle residents:

    As City Councilman of the 3rd Ward, I am listening to all sides. I have not made a decision.

    The City Council held an open work session for the public. As the BannerGraphic reported in a preview story, the meeting was open to the public. And the follow up report on the meeting was accurate.

    DePauw presented its side. Only 2 people from the community showed up to listen or comment and their concern was parking.

    I am listening, but I am not hearing from you the Greencastle people who elected me to office. I hear more about the basketball stories I write.

    I haven't made up my mind on this issue. My 3 questions are: 1. What is the financial cost to the city?

    I am told zero dollars. DePauw is paying for everything.

    2. How do residents on South College feel about this and how does this impact their lives.

    I haven't heard from anyone.

    3. In relation to the long-term project of new dorms, where are the students going to park, during and after this 5-year building project, and is that going to be enforced?

    I am told that more parking spaces are being created than are required. City requires 1 space for every 2 people -- 700 students, 350 parking spaces.

    I have not made a decision on any of this.

    I am listening Greencastle. My phone number is 653-4467 and is in the book. My email address is sfields@cityofgreencastle.com. The city council meets on March 14.

    Show up at city council meetings, communicate with council members in a civil way. We do listen.

    Steve Fields

    councilman 3rd Ward

    Greencastle, IN

    653-4467

    -- Posted by mofields on Sun, Feb 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM
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