K-9 Cain to join Lee at PCSD after city action

Tuesday, May 21, 2019
Kyle Lee and K-9 partner Cain are moving to the Putnam County Sheriff’s Department as a team.
Courtesy photo

The Putnam County Sheriff’s Department is not only getting former Greencastle Police Officer Kyle Lee but his little dog, too.

Although in this case the K-9 Cain is a 90-pound six-year-old German Shepherd. His acquisition by the Sheriff’s Department was approved via Greencastle City Council at its May meeting on a 4-1 vote after a dog fight of a debate over the K-9’s monetary value.

The Council ultimately passed Resolution 2019-2 with Adam Cohen, Steve Fields, Gary Lemon and Dave Murray in favor, Mark Hammer opposed and Stacie Langdon abstaining. Councilman Tyler Wade was absent.

The city will receive $3,250 as compensation for Cain, who by expert accounts has three or four years of service remaining as a dual-purpose (drug dog/bite dog) police K-9.

“The city originally asked for $6,500 for the K-9,” Mayor Bill Dory said in introducing the resolution. “I’m disappointed we received an offer of $3,000 from the Sheriff’s Department. I do understand in discussions with the Sheriff’s Department where that number came from.”

It came from expert opinions solicited by Sheriff Scott Stockton, who contacted veteran Indiana State Police Trooper and dog handler Dennis Wade, who estimated Cain’s value at $2,880-$3,200, and John Holcomb, Cain’s trainer from whom GPD purchased the dog, who valued him at $3,000.

“The considerations were his age, life expectancy for service, etc.,” Stockton told the Council.

More than three years ago, Lee and GPD raised “close to $15,000” for the purchase of Cain, training and equipping a police vehicle.

Council President Cohen worried that the city would have trouble duplicating that fundraising for another K-9.

“That money was raised to put the dog into the city,” Cohen said, “not that the county doesn’t need a dog, but that money was raised for a specific purpose.

“We started the program,” he continued, “because we were told ... it came from the question, ‘What is the best thing we can do to combat drugs in our city?’ At the time the recommendation from the police chief, from Kyle, and from almost all the officers was a dog. Is that still the belief, that the best thing the city can do is to have a K-9 unit on the force?”

“Yes,” Chief Tom Sutherlin quickly responded.

“So if that recommendation is still the best practice, we’re going to have to bring another dog back onto the street,” Cohen reasoned.

“That’s correct,” Sutherlin said. “And the cost for that, if we’re looking at the same trainer who trained Kyle’s dog, we’re looking at $6,500 to get a police officer and a dog trained together.”

Sutherlin said two current GPD officers have expressed interest in becoming K-9 handlers.

Experts recommend that a dog like Cain cannot be retrained to partner with another handler. Not only does Cain work with Lee but is a constant companion, living with the Lee family and essentially with the officer 24/7.

Councilman Fields nonetheless expressed frustration in losing not only an officer but his K-9 partner, asking if there was a way to guarantee that officers stay with the department.

“What Steve’s getting at,” Cohen said, picking up the discussion, “is we lose our investment in another officer and we lose the equipment, and I don’t mean a dog is just equipment.”

Yet as he said that you could hear Officer Lee sigh from across the Council chambers.

“It’s not turning over a gun,” Lee said. “It’s not turning over a car. He’s six years old, and he’s trained for one handler the whole time.

“Bring a master handler in here from anywhere in the country,” Lee suggested, “and he’s going to tell you that’s a bad idea (trying to retrain the dog). It’s not a piece of equipment.”

Lee also reminded city officials that “individuals from all over the county donated to the dog.”

Councilor Langdon, who ultimately abstained because she didn‘t feel the two sides “came up with the right compromise” and didn’t feel good about voting for or against it, suggested the Sheriff’s Department “make it right and give us $6,500, so at least we can go out and replace that dog. That’s why people donated.”

Sheriff Stockton, however, suggested people more likely “donated for the mission, for the war on drugs.”

Cain should be worth more, City Attorney Laurie Hardwick reasoned, because “he’s a very well trained, very valuable dog, which makes it even harder because he is worth more, because it is my understanding, he does a really, really good job.”

Chief Sutherlin agreed.

“You’re not going to find a better dog than Cain,” he said, recommending that with the cost and uncertainty of retraining, however, that the city approve the transfer of Cain to the county.

“When I personally called John Holcomb and asked if $3,000 was a good estimate, he said yes. I asked him about the likelihood of taking Cain and training him with another officer in our agency, and he said, ‘I’ve seen it happen,’ but it’s unlikely that it will happen because of the bond between the dog and the handler, especially since they’ve worked together for three years. It’s unlikely he would bond with another officer from our agency.”

Sutherlin pointed out that such retraining would cost $1,500 without any guarantee it was going to work.

With that recommendation, Councilman Murray made the motion to approve the resolution to transfer Cain to PCSD and Cohen seconded to move the discussion along.

“Based on Tom’s two comments tonight,” Cohen said, “one being we still need a dog. And two, that at best we have a 50-50 likelihood of retraining Cain, what is our best option going forward? Are we giving up on the dog program?”

“I think that’s a budgetary issue,” Murray replied.

Cohen then asked Sutherlin that if the city didn’t replace the dog, what could it do?

“Hire more police officers,” Chief Sutherlin said, suggesting an additional three officers could form the basis of a drug task force that could hit houses where drugs are being supplied and used.

However, the expense of such an undertaking is not presently in the city budget, all agreed. Especially, as Murray pointed out, after the city will see its share of LOIT (local option income tax) drop by $400,000 with Putnam County opting to taking a bigger share of those funds.

“Your recommendation,” Councilor Langdon asked Sutherlin, “is let’s get another dog if we can, but you’re also recommending we accept the $3,000 offer from the county, right?”

“Yes, that’s my recommendation,” the chief said.

Langdon then turned to Stockton with a compromise.

“Can you meet us halfway and help us approve this by giving us more than $3,000 to offset the $6,500?”

“I’ll split it with you -- $3,250,” Stockton offered.

Councilman Hammer, a CPA by trade, said he ran a depreciation formula on the cost of the dog and essentials of the program, saying Cain is valued in that manner at $4,800.

“So if we passed a resolution for $5,000, your answer is no?” Hardwick asked Stockton.

“Yeah, my answer’s no,” the sheriff said. “Like I said before, I’d do $3,250. But that’s it and that’s even more than what the dog handler you bought him from said he was worth.”

Fields asked what would happen to the dog if the Council voted down the resolution.

“Then I would have to find a place to shelter the dog,” Sutherlin said, while also trying to determine whether retraining was a good fit with one of his officers. “But I’ll tell you right now, I have no place to put a dog.”

“Or we pay someone to shelter the dog,” Cohen interjected.

“So we lose no matter what we do here,” Fields surmised.

Councilman Gary Lemon said there were just two choices left for the Council -- accept the $3,250 or not do it, “and then were are we?”

He amended the original motion to alter the payment for the dog from $3,000 to $3,250.”

“It’s unfair to the dog if we say no,” Councilman Fields said. “Then the dog is left without its handler, and it’s mistreated, the way I look at it. The dog’s kind of caught in the middle.”

With that, Lemon called for the question and the final 4-1 with one abstention tally successfully kept the Lee-and-Cain team intact as the duo move to the county.

Both Lee and Stockton pledged to use the dog to assist the city whenever possible. In fact, the resolution calls for Lee to “make all responsible effort” to assist GPD with traffic stops and other matters where drugs are suspected, as well as special events upon the request of the city.

Comments
View 19 comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
  • So basically the county is screwing over the city twice. Once by driving a lowball price for the dog, and again by opting to take more tax dollars resulting in lower amounts going to the city.

    Also, lets just ignore the depreciation that says the dog is worth $4800 and pull some random number of $3250.

    If the county wants this officer bad enough and his dog then perhaps they should pony up and do the right thing. If they had to train their own K9 they would have been out the $6500 so any amount less than that is a savings.

    -- Posted by hometownboy on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 7:58 AM
  • *

    1) Any which way, the city loses. Let this be a lesson to the Common Council. The County will always look out for its own interests first.

    2) K-9 "officers" are dangerous (physically and philosophically) and should NEVER be utilized by police forces. Bite dogs are vicious by training and have been known to attack innocents. Drug dogs are notoriously inconsistent and will often "detect" based on a handlers signal just as much as on an actual find.

    3) K-9 "officers" are treated by law as equivalent to a human officer, which is absurd. Attack a police dog, and it is an assault on an officer. However, police can kill your family pet and get a pass.

    4) I hope that b/c of #2 & #3, the Greencastle Common Council will not approve any more expenditures for K-9s. If you want to fight the "war on drugs": you need prevention education; a push for stiffer sentencing for "hard drugs" such as heroin/opiates and methamphetamines; and drug-testing of welfare recipients. (At least one, if not two, apartment complex in town is a hotbed of drugs and welfare.)

    4) Stacie Langdon should be ashamed for abstaining on such a simple matter. If you don't want to accept the county's offer then vote NO. People voted you into office to represent them and make decisions, not to simply sit on the fence. If this is the best you can do as a member of the Common Council, it would be better for all involved if you just resigned your seat and allowed someone who will actually take a position to represent.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 10:02 AM
  • Did officer Lee leave the department for higher pay? Maybe K9 officers could have an employment contract to remain with the department for the service life of the dog. If the officer leaves the force a depreciation fee would be paid by the officer. He could then negotiate with his new employer to pay the fee.

    -- Posted by johnn on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 11:15 AM
  • *

    Johnn - that is an excellent idea.

    Obviously you don't work in government. :)

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 11:41 AM
  • Let us not get all caught up in the innuendo above. Cars "have been known to" break down on the side of the road, yet we still utilize them. I am not sure where you are getting your data about the inconsistency of drug dogs, and how you specifically back up the statement that a drug dog "will often'detect' based on a handlers signal". A K9 indication only gives an officer probable cause to do a more in depth search. You don't have anything to worry about if you are not possessing drugs, except a little inconvenience. I would submit we should all be willing to accept that inconvenience in order to get drugs off the street and drug users identified (now if we could just be better at dealing with these addicts once they are identified).

    And lastly, police shooting family pets? Yes I am sure it has happened, but I am also sure it is not of epidemic proportions.

    -- Posted by Koios on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 2:03 PM
  • *

    Ahhh - the jack-booted statist (erjvh) returns.

    The stories, reports, tests, and related information is all over the internet. You never know what you might find if you actually bother looking. Here is one of hundreds: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-cour...

    Again with conflations and misdirections, eh? I never said it was epidemic proportions. I said the police can kill your family pet with no repercussions, however if you attack a police K-9 you will be charged with assaulting an officer (the same as if you had assaulted a human police officer).

    And there is a big difference between a car breaking down (which is an inconvenience) and a weaponized animal attacking innocent people.

    Again, internet searches work. And again, there are a lot of them:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-dog-attacks-innocent-man-gary-indiana/

    https://www.apnews.com/3cf10219a19944b7b8caef4357811f4e (innocent pregnant woman attacked by police dog. Courts find in favor of police department.)

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 2:39 PM
  • Thank goodness for this. A rumor was going around that they were not going to let the K9 continue with the Sheriff's Department. This dog is a godsend to this county. So many drug arrests have been made thanks to Kyle and Cain. So many people in Greencastle are still living back in the 50s where the most dangerous crime was an intoxicated person or someone taking money from a cash register. Wake up Greencastle folks, this ain't Mayberry.

    -- Posted by Queen53 on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 4:43 PM
  • *

    Yes, thank goodness.

    Otherwise people might actually live in freedom without their rights being violated by false positives used by unscrupulous police as "probable cause" for an otherwise warrantless search.

    And no, I am not saying that this has happened in Greencastle or Putnam County (that I am aware of).

    However, something very similar can (and I believe has) happened on I-70 in regards to large amounts of cash. Drug dogs will alert on large amounts of cash (b/c cash is very dirty). From there, its a quick trip to confiscation and "civil asset forfeiture".

    A police state is a safe state. But it is not a free state.

    And I would rather have dangerous freedom than safe slavery.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 4:57 PM
  • Pirate, I suggest you move to Syria for your dangerous adventures, I’ll stay here with the rule of law, and the necessary enforcement that comes with it. Large amounts of cash is no crime, large amounts of cash (or no cash) with drug possession is a crime, not to mention an increasing drain on the very fabric of our society. Hopefully all these rogue “unscrupulous” police you describe can and will continue to enforce the laws we have.

    -- Posted by Koios on Wed, May 22, 2019, at 6:39 PM
  • *

    More hyperbole and confuscation. Syria is not built upon the ideals of freedom. The quote "I prefer dangerous liberty over peaceful slavery" is one often associated with (but not attributed to) Thomas Jefferson. In freedom there is risk.

    Perhaps you, erjvh, should understand what LIBERTY is about.

    This is why I consider you a statist. You seem to be in favor of your particular flavor of big government. Its okay so long as their policies are in line with your own values and beliefs of what other people should and should not do. The power of the state is acceptable if its on your side. That is a dangerous belief system to anyone who considers themselves "free men" - including the Founding Fathers.

    I prefer that government do what it was originally designed to do - protect my rights and the rights of others. This includes the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure. (You know, it's in that almost obsolete Bill of Rights thing that amended the US Constitution.)

    Police dogs as "probable cause generators" is bad policy.

    Perhaps you have never heard the Stalinist axiom of "show me the man and I will find the crime."

    You could really use a lesson in the ideals upon which this country was founded, and not your misguided understanding of the rule of law. I support the rule of law. (To the point of siding with Statesville, NC over some RV dealership that wants to break the law under the guise of "patriotism" by flying a US flag larger than allowed by city ordinance.)

    The meaning behind "the rule of law" is that everyone is equal under the law, and that every citizen, regardless of social, economic, or any other factor, should be treated the same for the same crime. Its genesis is from English Common Law history where prior there were different rules for nobility vs the commoner. It does not mean using the power of the state (through legislation) as a cudgel to bash the citizen or control them.

    And if you don't think that cash only civil asset forfeiture occurs - in Putnam County and elsewhere - you must live in a cave. Or you are willfully blind to what goes on. In either case, I fear you may be beyond hope of ever understanding what this country was designed to be vs what it has become.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Thu, May 23, 2019, at 9:19 AM
  • You have inspired me. I am going to exercise my freedom and liberty to donate towards the purchase of GPD's next police K9. Hopefully it doesn't maliciously attack you, or otherwise infringe on your constitutional rights, while it's handler murders your family pets.

    -- Posted by Koios on Thu, May 23, 2019, at 12:44 PM
  • *

    Ok. Its your money.

    It doesn't change the facts: I speak truth. You speak hyperbole and distortion.

    Maybe you can get your picture in the paper donating one of those really big cardboard checks.

    Just be sure to dress appropriately and wear your jackboots.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Thu, May 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM
  • What comments. As I read this article I see good things said between the sheriff and the police department. Yes it is a siuation of money. But it is settled, all is in the past. The reason for Officer Lee changing departments has never been stated and it is none of our business. He apparently has been a great K-9 officer and I feel sure if needed he and Cain will be utilized for the best of our city and county.

    -- Posted by Nit on Thu, May 23, 2019, at 6:17 PM
  • deadpirateroberts: You seriously need to think about seeing a psychiatrist. You are definitely a nut case.

    -- Posted by Queen53 on Thu, May 23, 2019, at 8:00 PM
  • *

    Queen53:

    LOL - I am crazy for believing in freedom?

    Perhaps you and erjvh should start a "re-education" camp or the like for people that believe as I do... b/c we don't follow your line of thinking. And it's been noticed. (hat tip: Dr. Zhivago)

    After all, there are some really great models for you to follow: Soviet Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba. Even Germany had a plan to deal with those that didnt meet the standard.

    (Or, you could simply go the way of Woodrow Wilson and just have us "crazy" people sterilized.)

    Throw in a few dollars for a new K-9 and you could get your picture in the paper as well.

    You and erjvh would look really snappy in matching jackboots.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Fri, May 24, 2019, at 8:46 AM
  • I see the "no one knows who I am so I can say anything" philosophy is in full force. Ah, the power of anonymity.

    -- Posted by beg on Fri, May 24, 2019, at 10:30 AM
  • *

    Beg - Please don't knock the power of anonymity too much.

    While it certainly can be abused, there are also very good reasons for maintaining it.

    While I cant speak for all who "hide behind a screen name", I can tell you that I have good reasons (which include my children) for protecting my identity from certain other individuals. Sometimes small town living can be a bit of a double-edged sword.

    However, I can assure you that I have never said anything on here that I would not say in person.

    And those that know me personally likely already know it is me behind my screen name. And would likely also attest to the fact that these are the beliefs I hold. This would include law enforcement and government personnel (office holders and bureaucrats) that I am either friends with or at least on good terms with. I don't always agree with my friends or disagree with those that are not.

    I hope that you have gotten a bit more than the argument for/against anonymity out of the story & comments posted.

    In particular, if any of my posts have made you think about your position on the topic then they have served a purpose.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Fri, May 24, 2019, at 11:44 AM
  • I'm not sure why the Sheriff's department would need another dog, they really don't even use the one they have. According to Stockton in an article on December 14, 2018 he said “I don’t think Putnam County overall has an overwhelming drug epidemic,” Stockton said. “I think it’s a concern but I don’t think you have to worry about going into TSC and seeing drug deals going down.”

    -- Posted by concernedcitizen3 on Fri, May 24, 2019, at 5:20 PM
  • dreadpirateroberts, we enjoy your comments.

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Sat, May 25, 2019, at 12:33 AM
Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration: