Peace kept as rallies converge in downtown Greencastle

Monday, September 28, 2020
A participant waves an American flag during Saturday's Back the Blue Rally in downtown Greencastle.
Banner Graphic/BRAND SELVIA

Waving American flags, holding up signs and chanting slogans, at least 200 people gathered on the south lawn of the Putnam County Courthouse Saturday to voice their support for law enforcement.

Beginning at 10 a.m., the Back the Blue Rally was met with the near-continuous sound of horns from passersby. However, the tension rose when supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement organized on the west side of the courthouse an hour later for what has become a weekly protest.

While there were instances of confrontation throughout, both groups ultimately remained peaceful and no violence precipitated between them.

Putnam County Sheriff Scott Stockton told the Banner Graphic during the pro-police demonstration that it was a “collage” of different interest groups exercising their right to free speech.

Hoping for an uneventful day and with everything “so far, so good,” the sheriff said there was a “strategic plan” in place in case of “things going awry.” He also said he had spoken with representatives of both groups to lay down the ground rules.

“We don’t want to have any conflict, but you can appreciate emotion versus intellect — when emotion’s high, intellect’s low, and we can’t dictate and read everyone’s intent here,” Stockton said.

While he and local enforcement were happy with the outpouring of support for them, Stockton wanted a peaceful event regardless — no matter what the political or social perspectives each side took.

“Everyone has the right to exercise their First Amendment rights,” he said. “Where it crosses the line is where it becomes physical or a specific threat, or if weapons are drawn, things of that nature.

Motorcycles are parked after bikers joined the pro-police demonstration on the south lawn of the Putnam County Courthouse.
Banner Graphic/BRAND SELVIA

“Both sides understand that; they can appreciate that we in law enforcement will be intolerant of any acts of violence or threats in any manner,” Stockton emphasized. “And when it comes to ‘Justice is blind,’ we will not play favorites with anybody.”

Stockton said public safety is paramount. This is to the point that he said the police have the support of the Putnam County Prosecutor’s Office to intervene in cases of property damage or battery.

“What we don't wanna do in this community is to convey to visitors and to the people who live here that there’s not a plan in place that people can’t get along,” he said, “that there’s constant fighting and consternation and opposing views that can’t be expressed.

“I’m glad that we can have this,” Stockton added. “It’s refreshing that people can get together and convey their thoughts, protest, do what they want. Then they can go home and no one’s hurt.”

During both the pro-police and BLM demonstrations, the Greencastle Farmers Market and an open house for downtown businesses were winding down and starting up, respectively.

“I love my American way,” said participant Karl Szewc. “We make fun of Pollocks, Kentuckians, Tennesseans and all Americans. We know how to live.”

Szewc — who led the pro-police group in chants of “Back the blue, how ‘bout you!” — said the rally was to show “our brothers in blue” the respect he believed they needed and deserved.

“I don’t know how they do their job with what’s going on in America, but we appreciate their ability and their willingness to do it for us,” he said.

Szewc also negatively characterized youth involved in the nationwide movement against police violence.

“This is a response on my part for intimidation,” he said. “I’m tired of walking down the street and getting intimidated by people who didn’t even know how (America) was made, where they stand for.

“They go by and give you the finger right there in your face, like idiots,” Szewc added. “This country is turning over to a bunch of idiots, only we ain’t gonna let it.”

Emphasizing that this was a “free America,” Szewc said the rally was about people coming out speaking their mind and however they felt. He invoked President Donald Trump being able to do the same.

“That’s a whole other ballgame; this is not political,” Szewc concluded. “It can be political if they wanna make it that way.”

Members of the protest in support of Black Lives Matter stand on the west side of the courthouse.
Banner Graphic/BRAND SELVIA

Toward the end of the pro-police demonstration — which disbanded by about 12:30 p.m. — pro-Trump flags had been unfurled by some of the participants.

Members of Greencastle Christian Church handed out peanut butter-and-jelly sack lunches to both sides.

Joseph Harris — the vice-president of the Greencastle branch of the NAACP — said this BLM protest had the same goal as the others that have been held on previous Saturdays since June.

“I think the Black Lives Matter protests have had the same objective that they’ve had all summer,” Harris told the Banner Graphic about wanting to bring awareness to racial inequality and police violence.

While the BLM protests have not highlighted instances specific to Greencastle or Putnam County, Harris suggested that issues of police violence and racial tension still affect this community.

“I think that what you see is (that) we have people who are here from all over the place,” he said. “There’s no magical bubble shield that keeps Greencastle and Putnam County from being affected on the macro-level.”

Harris referenced a letter submitted by Greencastle Police Chief Tom Sutherlin following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minn. In it, Sutherlin indicated that the incident, “in no way represents the mission or our training in regard to use of force.”

Participants in Saturday's Black Lives Matter protest hold up signs during their demonstration.
Banner Graphic/BRAND SELVIA

Harris connected the letter with community members participating in the BLM protests, in that both sides recognized that what happened was wrong.

“They didn’t have to live there to see the injustice,” he stressed.

Harris said some of the pro-police demonstrators approached the BLM protesters and shouted “Don’t do drugs,” in addition to other provocations like people driving by and yelling racial slurs. One BLM protester repeatedly yelled “Black Lives Matter” to some of them near the Buzz Bomb.

“I think what you saw was a bunch of people who are passionate about their beliefs,” Harris said. “I think from the Black Lives Matter side, you saw a wide variety of people ... You saw a very diverse group of people over there.”

The BLM protest — which numbered about 150 people — was made up of community members intermingled with DePauw University students.

“I think that a lot of times, people think that for you to say ‘Black Lives Matter,’ you only have to be Black to care about that,” Harris professed.

“You saw quite a lot of White people out there who cared about this issue and wanted their voice to be heard, and to let people know that this isn’t just a Black issue; this is an issue that’s affecting America.”

Comments
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  • DoNt tHoSE bAcK ThE BlUe PeOPLE HaVE JoBs???

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Sat, Sep 26, 2020, at 8:03 PM
  • Pro-police Supporters? Were they part of the unsophisticated, ignorant, and uneducated citizenry from Putnam County as described by a BLM organizer just a few weeks ago?

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Sat, Sep 26, 2020, at 9:19 PM
  • I support the police too, but how is their bastardization of the American Flag not disrespectful?

    And I'm glad this was peaceful and everyone seems to have behaved themselves.

    -- Posted by unbiased on Sat, Sep 26, 2020, at 10:46 PM
  • Lol well considering a lot of them were yelling “all lives matter” or “blue lives matter” I’d say yes, a lot of them probably fall into the category of uneducated and ignorant. Blue lives don’t exist, however we support and appreciate our local police, so we’re not offended simply by the statement “back the blue”.

    -- Posted by Unbothered350 on Sat, Sep 26, 2020, at 11:06 PM
  • BJCP76: I'm not sure I understand your comment. Did you expect them all to be at work on a Saturday morning? And by your logic shouldn't all the BLM people have been at their jobs also?

    Unbiased: I agree the blue and white American flags were disrespectful, but I saw a lot of red, white, and blue flags there also. In contrast, I didn't see a single American flag in the BLM group at all.

    -- Posted by Ben Dover on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 10:04 AM
  • It's about time that people started showing up to support our police.

    Think about it: Someone breaks into your house, steals your car, abuses a child. rapes your wife or daughter. or perhaps kills someone in your family. Who are you going to call.....the police or someone from Black Lives Matter? No brainer.

    -- Posted by Queen53 on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 10:19 AM
  • These people protesting about BLM so why is it that most communities in the US have blacks killing blacks. this violence is unbecoming. Our Police try not to shoot but there is times that they try not to. Yes some police use force, which is wrong but when people talk down to them or spit on them what should they do. Not all facts are shown on the TV. All lives matter and to put down all our heritage and the history is wrong. If more kids had good home discipline a lot of this would not happen. Kids these days have no respect for the other person, or parents or our officers of the laws.

    -- Posted by joyo on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 10:37 AM
  • BJCP76’s comment was a direct call out to all the people who have been telling the BLM Protestors to “get a job.”

    And enough with the black on black violence. Statistics show that people are more likely to kill someone of their own race, especially when they are in low funded communities, which are only low funded because of years of systemic oppression. But if you wanna talk about it, why are mass/school shooters predominantly white?

    And if you wanna talk about people who don’t have respect for others, tell that to all the parents who kick out their kids for being gay, or liking someone of a different race. Or tell that to the entire generation of people who Are still living but couldn’t get over the idea of drinking out of the same water fountain or being in the same class as a black person. Or every time someone refuses to use someone’s preferred pronouns. Or what about all the Karen’s going off about having to wear a mask. Or when someone tells you not to litter your cigarette butts. The only thing y’all have respect for is people who keep your white society all cushy and comfortable. Where’s the respect for other cultures when y’all were dressing your kids up like Pocahontas or painting your faces black for humor?

    Final note: how are you going to blame an entire generation? Who do you think raised us?

    -- Posted by Unbothered350 on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 1:23 PM
  • Also calling the police doesn’t prevent crime, it just leads to them filing a report and the prosecutor making the decision on whether it’s “charge worthy” if calling/reporting to the police was so beneficial to our society, why do so many sexual assault charges fall short of a conviction? Yes the police are beneficial, however rarely after the crime has already been committed.

    -- Posted by Unbothered350 on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 1:27 PM
  • Hate steals away the ability to reason, think, and have common sense.

    We can find an example to support any story we want to communicate. This thread is proof.

    Sadly, common ground can't be found because everything is all or nothing.

    I heard 2 quotes once that are so true- Reality is not reality, perception is reality and We don't see the truth for what it is but for who we are.

    These are just 2 things that keep us from having civil discourse, being kind to each other, and being intentional in finding win wins.

    I find it sad.

    -- Posted by beg on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 2:02 PM
  • Ms. Keane, I attended your protest Saturday. I sat quietly across the street for over an hour and listened. I did not hear any explanation for why your group was there, what they were protesting, or why it was important to the residents of Putnam County. I heard a lot of chants such as “No Justice, No Peace”; “I can’t breathe”; “Say his name - George Floyd”; and many others. The group seemed to know all the chants quite well, as though they had rehearsed them many times.

    I listened; no one spoke in any language I understood. Just a laundry list of names of “martyrs” the blm movement has chosen. Why is Breonna Taylor, an innocent woman sleeping in her own home, lumped in with two criminals who were resisting police and high on drugs? I wonder how Jacob Blake’s rape victim feels about him being held up as a hero. Perhaps the many young female DePauw students in attendance should be informed who they are chanting for.

    I’m glad both protests remained relatively peaceful. I had concerns after watching bumper stickered cars file off of I-70 and head toward Greencastle all morning.

    -- Posted by techphcy on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 3:00 PM
  • Having seen many many protests online on YouTube, why are ONLY the BLM protests violent and destructive to property and other persons who happen to disagree? How does someone declaring "ALL LIVES MATTER", which INCLUDES BLACK LIVES, diminish blacks. As a side note, why do we not see American citizens of Irish, Asian, Hispanic, or Native American descent protesting. Do the organizers of these BLM protests not see or realize they are only broadening racist attitudes, or are they only leading these protests to advance their own personal "greater good" and "self aggrandizement", and agenda?

    -- Posted by FactswithoutBS on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 6:39 PM
  • The comments on this article show WHY Putnam County has BLM protesters - or at least that a large percentage of the commenters are clearly racist and don't even realize it. If you don't understand why "All lives matter" is offensive to the BLM movement you need to do 5 minutes of research and quit getting all your news from Fox. The police here are pretty good people, but that isn't true everywhere and BLM is trying to call attention to that. Even criminals have rights and police are not allowed to shoot people for not obeying them, at least not yet. KAYCE JEAN - you need to comment under another name. Your comments are intelligent but because you're a leader of the protests people just want to argue with you.

    -- Posted by unbiased on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 8:21 PM
  • I didn't write this, and don't know who did, but we all need to think about it and try to do better.

    "Remember when #TrayvonMartin was unjustly killed, and y’all said he was a criminal and he shouldn’t have fought back. Y’all said he shouldn’t have been out that late... in his parent’s neighborhood. Y’all called him a thug.

    Do y’all remember how often you were out late as a teenager?

    Or what about 12-year-old #TamirRice. Y’all said he shouldn’t have been playing with a toy gun and that he shouldn’t have been at the park alone. Do y’all forget that MOST of OUR childhoods were spent playing in various places, often with toy guns, without adult supervision?

    I recall the killing of #AhmaudArbery and y’all said he shouldn’t have been in that neighborhood or looking around in the construction site. Y’all said he should have complied with the men who literally ran him down and murdered him. Have any of y’all ever been curious about a new home construction and looked inside the windows?

    And then there’s the murder of #BreonnaTaylor. I heard some of y’all say she shouldn’t have known the man that police were looking for, the same man they already had. Y’all said her boyfriend shouldn’t have fired shots after their door was busted down in the middle of the night with no indication of who was entering their house. Do y’all remember saying you would protect your home, property, and family at any cost, and then went out and got your CCL?

    And speaking of CCL’s:

    Remember when #PhilandoCastile was killed, and y’all said he shouldn’t have had the gun that he legally purchased, carried, and informed the officer of when that officer told him to reach for his ID and then murdered him?

    Y’all said Amber Guyger was justifiably scared when she went into the wrong apartment and murdered #BothamJean.

    Y’all said #GeorgeFloyd deserved to die for past crimes that he already served his sentences for, and besides he might’ve had fentanyl in his system, right?

    And those are just some examples of unjustified murders that have remained visible. I suggest you look into some others that haven’t received near as much coverage.

    #TamlaHorsford

    #KendrickJohnson

    #MitriceRichardson

    Lastly, when the #CentralPark5 maintained their innocence, y’all said they were obviously guilty. When the man who would become the President demanded they remain in jail AFTER they were exonerated, didn’t some of y’all applaud him?

    It seems like every time a black man, woman, or child dies y’all will extrapolate, insinuate, and justify as much as you can why that person should be dead. Why does anyone place the blame on the victim and exonerate the murderer?

    However, when a 17 year old kid crosses state lines with a weapon he is not legal to possess, intentionally places himself within the protest, shoots someone, runs away, and then shoots two more people who attempted to subdue him for shooting the first person, then walks calmly right by police, and goes back home to another state after taking someone’s life, y’all call him a hero.

    Y’all say he did nothing wrong. Y’all say it was self defense. Even though HE illegally crossed state lines with a weapon, even though HE intentionally went looking for trouble, even though HE fully intended to pull the trigger, y’all are willing to defend him.

    Y’all never said he shouldn’t have been out that late in a different neighborhood. Y’all never said he shouldn’t have had a gun. Y’all never said he should have complied with the people chasing him. Y’all never said he shouldn’t have been there.

    This is why protests simply stating #BLACKLIVESMATTERS are still taking place. This is why there is a demand for equality, equanimity, and accountability. No one said other lives didn’t matter. Folks said black lives don’t seem to matter to you. What if that’s not true? Well, some of y’all reinforce it. How? Because every time you defend a murderer. Y’all make it widely known that when the black life is lost, they somehow deserved it.

    Everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Everyone is supposed to have the right to due process. But the repeated murders of unarmed black lives by police and the subsequent justification in the court of public opinion proves that all people are not privy to those rights. Kyle Rittenhouse will live to see his trial, just like Dylann Roof did. He will be protected. He will get adequate legal defense for the crimes of which he stands accused. He has already been given an extension to hire legal defense attorneys. He has already had roughly $200K raised in online support from a religious (givesendgo) organization. Eric Garner didn’t get any of that. George Floyd didn’t get any of that. Philando Castile didn’t either. Nor did Sandra Bland. So many others didn’t. Too many others didn’t. Many more won’t.

    We are regularly told how much America has changed. We are regularly told how racism isn’t that big of an issue anymore. We are regularly told, by people who have never experienced it, who have never been subjected to it, who have never had to fight against it, that it isn’t real. This country fought a civil war and had a civil rights movement, and the sad fact of the matter is that this country apparently hasn’t really changed that much.

    It just hides its true face better.

    We still have work to do. We can DO better. We should EXPECT better. And we can BE better. Especially if we do it together."

    -- Posted by unbiased on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 8:39 PM
  • *

    Unbiased, thank you much for posting that. It is very powerful and explains so much of that faulty logic / thinking that gets applied to these murders of POC.

    -- Posted by RSOTS on Sun, Sep 27, 2020, at 9:55 PM
  • I'm enjoying the debate, even though Greencastle's protesters seem to have failed to offer any solutions to a problem they so stubbornly present, and I can't wait until the protesters export their protests beyond easy walking distance from DePauw to exotic Putnam County locations such as Cloverdale, which I understand is full of ignorant, unsophisticated, and uneducated Hoosiers: precisely the people that KJK hopes to attract to the cause.

    However, as much as I enjoy the debate, I can still remember the words of MALCOM X and wonder if they are still relevant today, or if white liberals have changed. I also apologize in advance for any misspellings or auto corrections. In addition, there is a chance that today's white liberals have never heard of MALCOM X because of their deemphasizing of history. One of the big differences between MALCOM X and today's white liberals was that MALCOM X offered solutions to the problem.

    Malcolm X said: “The worst enemy that the Blacks have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Blacks and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Blacks have. If the Black wasn’t taken, tricked or deceived by the white liberal, then Blacks would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America, the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Blacks think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man.”

    Was MALCOM X wrong?

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 9:11 AM
  • the democratic party has done a wonderful job of promoting themselves as the party of inclusiveness. In my interactions and observations, I find just the opposite. Their inclusiveness is based only on their political theology. They have no problem trashing and labeling a person of any gender or race who does not support their theology. We are about to witness it again.

    The republican party not much different in this approach though they seem to be in more support of freedom of speech that their theology doesn't agree with.

    I agree with the together comment by Unbiased. Sadly, neither side really wants that. It would mean the potential next step or solution lies within a combination of the different positions. In essence, compromise and recognition that the opposing position might be part of the solution.

    Together today has been redefined just like tolerance- "I will work together with those who agree with me. If they don't, means they don't want to work together." Similar to tolerance- "I am tolerant of those I agree with".

    I can predict the reaction and labeling coming my way even though the only observation I made had nothing to do with the protests or motivations for the protests.

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 9:56 AM
  • *

    Beg, I 100% agree with you about the inability to "work together" or "listen and tolerate" another's opinion in order to grow, understand and reach a solution.

    However as a "Democrat" and "Liberal" that posts and comments on this site I have yet to have one, just one, person from the other side of the so called aisle want to listen, debate or otherwise discuss my viewpoints.

    It is nothing but attack, attack, ridicule and label. I am completely open to listening and trying to understand. I'll be excited when I find this in return.

    -- Posted by RSOTS on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 10:02 AM
  • Based on my observations of the Democratic party, The BG took down my post. I am disappointed as I followed all the guidelines, was in the middle on most comments, and gave an honest observation regarding the party. The BG removing my comment actually validated one of my observations regarding the left and free speech.

    I was respectful, stayed on the topic, didn't call anyone names, no obscenities, civil in my discourse, and any grandma could feel good about reading. Strictly an observational approach with no name calling or labeling.

    That leads me to a conclusion based on the action of the BG- they disapproved of my observations of the democratic party. I am very disappointed in the leadership of the Banner. You know there was no inflammatory, labeling, or off color language. You allow posts that are of that type regarding the right to stay published.

    Just think, a newspaper, where freedom of expression is sacroscant, is where perspectives that follow the rules but are deleted because of ???????????

    I would appreciate a personal email (you have it) providing me clarity and provide understanding what was inappropriate.

    Thanks

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 10:22 AM
  • Please ignore my last comment as now my deleted comment is now posted again.

    I am sorry BG for making an assumption rather than considering a tech issue

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM
  • RSTOS,

    I agree.

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 10:25 AM
  • @Beg--The BG has censored me in the past by not only deleting my comment(s) but, banning me from posting.

    My high crime? I posted a comment about a high school senior athlete who was great at running cross country. I asked if that athlete knew how to read and write as well. I was told I was attacking a "child" who was 18 at the time.

    When I was a high school student most athletes were terrible students in class but, the school let them play any way.

    So, I am not surprised the BG deleted your comment. They are great at censoring--a direct slap at the 1st Amendment's face.

    -- Posted by donantonio on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 11:04 AM
  • RSTOS,

    I find your comment interesting. I actually find the same situation when trying to discuss with someone from the left. I guess that proves my point. Neither side sees their own flaw but clearly see the flaws of the opposing

    POSH asked a legit question above that opens the door to possible conversation. No one has responded.

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 2:11 PM
  • *

    Beg, I'm sure I can be blind to my own flaws. I will admit that but that's one of the reason I try to hear an opposing view point. Fun fact I digest more Fox News that I do CNN / MSNBC as I feel they best way to learn is not to listen to those that agree with the way you think but listen to those that you disagree with in order to challenge your way of thinking.

    As far as the Malcom X quote that POSH posted their is a ton of validity in that although I don't believe that it applies completely when you are talking the current climate. Considering that the majority of the lawmakers, politicians, chiefs of police, sheriffs, etc... that need to implement the training and the funding that is needed to change / reform our current judicial and policing system are white, it's only natural that POC can't fix this problem solely on their own.

    Can they work on fixing problems within individual communities? Yes. But so can we so until I get my backyard cleaned up I'll hold out on telling my neighbor to clean his.

    I would challenge right leaning people to turn off Fox for a while. Left leaning people to turn off CNN / MSNBC for a while. Listen to something that you don't agree with. Think outside of your normal. Try to develop some empathy (No matter what DPR says God love him).

    -- Posted by RSOTS on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 2:32 PM
  • LOL.

    I actually do listen to different sources of news. I lean to the right and Fox actually is a detriment because they leave an awful representation of a conservative. A very inaccurate picture. The CNN's of the world are the Fox of the right. It does allow me to see a different perspective but it is easy to guess their reaction and reporting before it happens.

    I actually don't see them as sources for news. I view them as entertainment and agenda driven rather than news reporters.

    I read Reuters more than anything else now as they are the most frequent providing information and allowing me to reach conclusions. Seem to the most fair and balanced!!!

    LOL

    -- Posted by beg on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 3:21 PM
  • "Too many among today's intellectual elite see themselves as our shepherds and us as their sheep." - Thomas Sowell.

    We are not sheep.

    -- Posted by Youseriousclark? on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 5:53 PM
  • @Unbiased, you need a new username. I do not watch Fox, ever, and I am not a closet racist. I recommend you rethink your prejudices.

    -- Posted by techphcy on Mon, Sep 28, 2020, at 7:57 PM
  • Why have Ms. Keans comments been deleted? Can the Banner explain this "censorship" please?

    -- Posted by FactswithoutBS on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 3:25 AM
  • they deleted mine too. facts apparently are hate speech now.

    -- Posted by davide_norris on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 4:25 AM
  • I think if comments are reported, they’re temporarily hidden until mods can check them. I’ve seen comments, including my own, reappear later.

    -- Posted by techphcy on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 8:34 AM
  • The police keep the peace. I'll support them and that. I look at character not skin color.

    -- Posted by 1armyvet on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 11:40 AM
  • *

    I thought I would put down my popcorn for a moment to say:

    Unbiased - I would double-check your "victim" list."

    Trayvon Martin was killed while attacking someone. No cops involved.

    Ahmoud Arbery was shot while charging at/fighting a guy holding a shotgun. (Not very smart.) No cops involved. The people involved are rightly facing criminal prosecution.

    Breonna Taylor is a tragedy, not a criminal act.

    George Floyd died from his own recklessness and drugs, not the cops. (Facts, not narrative.) Did the cops handle things poorly? Certainly seems that way.

    Tamla Horsford died in what has been ruled an accident. No signs of anything else. However, it seems the GBI is taking a look at everything.

    Kendrick Johnson died of an accident. His family had to pay defense fees when they lost a lawsuit against several people bc the Johnson family fabricated evidence.

    Mitrice Richardson's death was ruled not a homicide by the coroner. The seeming controversy is that the Sheriffs Department let her go (after being detained for theft for not paying for a meal) when the girls mother claims she was mentally ill. The police said she was not acting as though mentally ill when released. (If you wish to argue for the more stringent containment of those deemed mentally ill, please be my guest.)

    The Central Park 5, while ultimately exonerated for the rape of that lady, were nonetheless very guilty of rioting, assault, and various other crimes. Not excusing things, but pointing out that they weren't innocent children.

    Jean Botham was a bad shoot. No one I know disagrees, including many cops and white people.

    Philando Castille was a bad shoot. No one I know disagrees, including many cops and white people.

    Tamir Rice was a bad shoot. No one I know disagrees, including many cops and white people.

    Black, brown, white, or purple... a bad shoot is a bad shoot. And whether by cops or civilians should be dealt with via the legal system.

    Will we always get the result we want? Nope.

    Nor is our system perfect. But its still better than anything else you will find anywhere else in the world.

    I do find it interesting that you neglected to mention Glenn Rightsell - a WHITE guy wrongfully shot/killed by police right here in Indiana, right down the road from Greencastle, by a State cop currently working out of the Putnamville post.

    Yes, I know that you didn't write the comment that you posted (so why not proper attribution?) but you could've edited/added, right?

    Or would your narrative fall apart when people start listing all the WHITE people also killed by cops, accidents, and blacks (in reverse of the Ahmoud Arbery case)?

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 2:22 PM
  • Hey everybody, looks like PonyBoy emerged from his InfoWars cave and saw his shadow. Guess we got 6 more weeks of thinly veiled bigotry.

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 2:38 PM
  • Dreadpirateroberts, I haven't checked your facts, but if they are true, then you should not have introduced them into a liberal argument based on emotion and hyperbole because someone will no doubt label you as ignorant, unsophisticated, uneducated, or possibly even a bigot. And they will certainly assign a derogatory moniker.

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 3:59 PM
  • DPR: posts a thoughtful reply with his own opinions in response to a boilerplate copypasta.

    BJCP: “racist”

    Pretty obvious where the problem is here.

    -- Posted by techphcy on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 4:02 PM
  • BJCP76,

    Name calling not needed and destroys the ability for conversation. Disagree all you want with what is written. Your comment above destroys the ability to converse. If you are concerned with the message, then respond to the message.

    Since we use bullying so easily in society, your words could be construed as being a bully.

    I encourage you to focus on the messaging. Would be better for all.

    -- Posted by beg on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 4:07 PM
  • DePauw University in a recent poll of students rates as one of the lowest in free speech? https://www.usnews.info/university-of-chicago-takes-home-top-honors-depauw-unive...

    Maybe so, but they certainly deserve honorable mention when it comes to chanting, alienating community members, and courthouse protesting.

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Tue, Sep 29, 2020, at 8:23 PM
  • National News about a local entity. We are about to learn if local media are reporters of news.

    -- Posted by beg on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 8:53 AM
  • This bit of news is available from several sources on the internet concerning DePauw's rating of student attitudes toward the institution's free-speech policies.

    If it is true, it makes one wonder just how many of the DePauw students involved in the courthouse protests are facing some type of coercion to participate. Yes, I know, we have all read that the protests have nothing to do with DePauw or members of its staff, which should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 9:21 AM
  • *

    LOL - BJCP76 has been unable to come up with a cogent thought or meaningful comment since he began posting on the Banner Graphic.

    He has continually made derogatory comments and personal attacks with no substance or style, often off-topic and usually asinine.

    He is, again, a child sitting at the grown-ups table trying to fit in... and failing, as usual.

    C'est la vie.

    Proverbs 26:11.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM
  • dread -- you're being a bully and name calling. Hopefully beg takes note of this.

    derogatory comments? I made fun of your ponytail, in a joking manner. I like your ponytail, I do. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

    You say alot of racist things so to me that makes you a racist, just my opinion.

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 10:33 AM
  • Also Proverbs 6:16-19

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 10:35 AM
  • What a terribly written article. Hopefully someone who scored greater than a D- in high school English will cone along and wrote a better one.

    (Not the main BG article, the one about DePauw and free speech)

    -- Posted by techphcy on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 11:10 AM
  • Tech -- I mean come on..."Hopefully someone who scored greater than a D- in high school English will cone along and WROTE a better one."

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 11:34 AM
  • *

    BJCP76 - I say things that you perceive as racist b/c its the easiest way for you to deal with something you may disagree with regardless of its truthfulness... b/c you are incapable of having an intellectual discussion of the reality of things.

    In fact I imagine you would be hard pressed to actually define "racism" as a word or concept as an unwavering standard... nevermind trying to honestly tag me with it.

    Calling "racism" allows YOU to FEEL superior - much like was described in the passage about Malcolm X. I imagine that Malcolm X and I would be closer to agreement than you would be to either of us.

    My premise is one of equal opportunity. Your premise is one of 'disadvantaged/handicapped by skin-color'. Where I believe that a man (of any color) can achieve what he sets out to accomplish by way of effort, you believe that a black man can only achieve by way of assistance from white people.

    From what I understand of most peoples ideas of racism...yours is certainly more fitting of that moniker. However, I will not tag you with it b/c that is not how I operate. I simply accept that this is how you perceive things.

    I take people (individually) for who they show themselves to be... white/black/brown/yellow/purple.

    There was a guy named Martin Luther King Jr (maybe you have heard of him?) who spoke of judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

    The Bible tells us to "love your neighbor as yourself"... or put another way... treat people the way you want to be treated.

    It's really as simple as that.

    Now if you are talking generalities such as people groups, cultures, etc...perhaps, as if from a sociological point-of-view...then yes there are good people lumped in with the bad and bad people with the good, etc.

    Its like the European attitude towards Americans, i.e. "The ugly American".

    Or like a late 70's Richard Pryor stand up routine (currently on Netflix, btw) where all blacks are referred to by the dreaded "N-word"...by Richard Pryor.

    Or calling white people "hick", "hillbilly", or "redneck" simply b/c of a cultural affinity that they share such as country music.

    And when you are mature/wise enough to hold two differing thoughts in your mind at the same time without conflation then perhaps you will start to understand that one can be intellectually honest to reality without being a horrible person.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 11:49 AM
  • My God you just go on and on don't you, honestly most of that is just words. Write less, it might help you make a conherent argument. You're arguing with my opinion, have fun that.

    Racism is like Pornography, you know it when you see it.

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 12:11 PM
  • *

    BJCP76, if you are going to attack someone's spelling or grammar than yours should be spot on. And "Conherent" isn't a word. This is why attacking typo's and spelling is silly. People are going to make mistakes and misspell things. Focus on the point.

    DPR, I understand your point about how others view racism. However I would like to know how you view it. Not how you view yourself or your actions but how you view racism / lack thereof. Do you think that people are hated / targeted for their skin color or it's all made up?

    -- Posted by RSOTS on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 12:29 PM
  • RSOTS -- I agree 100%-- I was more making the point that he was saying the author of the articles writing was bad and then made a spelling mistake, using Wrote over Write. Mine was adding n...but regardles, you are correct, point taken.

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 12:47 PM
  • *

    BJCP76 - LOL. Apparently you aren't at the point that anyone can have an intellectual discussion with you... and it seems that you subscribe to the theory that racism is in the eye of the beholder, which allows you to move the goalposts as suits you... an intellectually dishonest behavior. I believe we are done with you.

    RSOTS - While I do believe that some people (of any color) are hated/targeted by other people (of any color)... I do not believe that it is "racism" as is usually defined/used by most people. To me it is simply bad behaviour on the part of the offender.

    From an academic perspective I believe in the idea of ethnocentrism... that people tend to be attracted (socially) to people like themselves and tend to see people unlike themselves as "others" or "outsiders".

    That is not to say that people cannot or will not engage with people outside of their own group - b/c history has shown us that happens often - but the larger in population sample you go the more often that behaviour is less noticed... as a matter of mathematics it becomes statistically smaller.

    I have seen white people act "racist". I have seen black people act "racist". I have seen Latino people act "racist" to both blacks and whites.

    Try dating outside of your race... not only are you ostracized by your own group (for going outside of the group) but you are castigated/attacked by the other group for "infiltrating". (Speaking in large generalities, of course, as well as my own personal experience. Other specific instances may have different results.)

    Most people tend to self-segregate as a matter of human nature. Its not "racism".

    Further, the idea of "racism" often entails an idea of systemic inequality that can only be fixed by systemic inequality...furthering the idea that the system is needed. The system grows, and individual liberty withers. (Please remember that I am a liberty-minded guy...that to some degree I am a nation of one, sovereign in my own right who by consent bands together with other sovereign individuals for the securing of my natural rights, and who believes that that which governs least governs best.)

    Quotas (known by many other names now) whereby a job opening applied for by a black man and a white man of equal qualification would go to the black man so as to "tick a box", or even worse an under-qualified black man would get the job in the name of "diversity", are evil on their face. But this is what the sytem does... it eliminates freedom. In this case, freedom to choose your own preference. Discrimination is used to fight discrimination...in direct contrast to MLKjr's idea that darkness cannot beat darkness, only light can.

    As an often-used example: The firefighter. With both candidates being equally qualified, if the black guy is hired b/c he is funnier, more personable, or even just cooks better - so be it. Same with the white guy. I want the best person doing that job. Period.

    To judge/rate someone solely by their skin color is generally repugnant. However, it will happen... again, human nature. And it may not even be "racism".

    Recall Jesse Jackson's comments about being relieved by the idea that the footsteps heard behind him belong to whites and not blacks... not b/c he is "racist" against black people but b/c he is aware of the higher probability of being mugged by black males vs white males.

    We should strive - as individuals - to rise above such things where we can while understanding that sometimes discrimination (which is simply choosing "this" over "that") isn't always as simple as race...or religion...or nationality...or whatever. All people are inherently biased. You ain't getting around that.

    Nor is life always fair.

    While there have been many instances of "racism" in history - and throughout the world (Europe, Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Oceania...every continent except Antartica) - it seems that it is only American "racism" that is noted continually and used as a cudgel, and therefore it seems that it isn't so much about "racism" as matter of human nature or even bad behaviour to be called out as it is about subversion of a political framework rooted in individual liberty (the American ideal) for the sake of a statist government.

    I hope that I have given some sort of answer to your queries.

    Unfortunately, it would likely take a book to try to explain all the vagaries and nuances... it isn't simply a black & white issue, if you will pardon the pun.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 1:55 PM
  • @bjcp you missed the other intentional typo

    -- Posted by techphcy on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 2:03 PM
  • tech - -I shouldnt have criticized your comment either way, I apologize.

    -- Posted by BJCP96 on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 2:33 PM
  • *

    DPR, I hear you and agree with you to a certain point. I think we disagree with what the word "racism / racist" means and what it implies. I also think that your beliefs are somewhat naive in the fact that they allow you to try and downplay real issues by wrapping them up in a long drawn out explanation that fails to contain any real substance, and skipping over the need to address the reality of the world that many POC live in and deal with daily.

    However I do appreciate the response and the civil discourse.

    At the end of the day whether I call it "Racism" and you call it "matter of human nature" wrong is still wrong.

    -- Posted by RSOTS on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 2:50 PM
  • Boy, the Banner Graphic sure is getting a lot play in the form of writings from their readers.

    -- Posted by donantonio on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 3:14 PM
  • *

    RSOTS - Yes, we can agree that wrong is still wrong. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of who is doing it or why.

    I am not trying to downplay issues. Simply not trying to play them up.

    All the "POC"* that I know seem to be doing pretty well in life, with no more problems than anyone else.

    But perhaps that's b/c they choose to live life in a manner we (those not classified as "POC") can understand and appreciate... a life based on American ideals and Western civilization. Y'know... work, family, education, law & order, civics.

    Unfortunately, many of their peers would say that they are "acting white". (Which sounds kinds of racist... or would that be cultural appropriation? LOL - political correctness can be so confusing.)

    At the end of the day - its not about black/white. It's about respect. Respect for each other, as well as for ourselves.

    And while I am sure that sometimes people do behave badly - of all colors and stripes - I believe a lot of the noise is coming from grievance-mongers with large megaphones. Just as Booker T. Washington alluded.

    *I think its kind of funny that you use "POC" while we discuss how racism is bad. You are grouping/partitioning people based on skin color while saying its bad to treat these same people differently b/c of skin color.

    Nothing against you, as you are merely using the vernacular of those self-professed "POC"... but it goes to show that people will often self-segregate.

    Human nature.

    In fact, black people often self-segregate within their own community (Taking "black" as a complete social community.) Light-skinned vs dark-skinned; origin communities (American blacks vs African blacks vs Caribbean blacks); and I am sure it could be broken down by other variables if one wanted to earn their sociology/anthropology doctorate.

    Lest you think I am racist, whites do it as well... also usually from a origin/community standpoint. In fact country-of-origin-people-group skirmishes were quite extensive in early American history (and still exist in the Irish mob vs Italian mob wars, along with a growing Russian and Balkan mob influence), and white immigrants were often treated as 2nd or 3rd class citizens by other whites when arriving in America whether it was country of origin, religion, or ?? that made them "different".

    Human nature.

    You ain't gonna change 5000+ years of it overnight.

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 5:19 PM
  • Dreadpirateroberts, I always know what I want to write, but I'm never certain that I've found the best or correct words. I'm envious of your writing style. So many times you have written exactly what I would have said if I only could have found those words.

    -- Posted by Prince of Stardust Hills on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 8:27 PM
  • @bjcp I forgive you and respect the fact that you apologized. We don’t have enough of that these days.

    -- Posted by techphcy on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 9:10 PM
  • *

    POSH - Thank you. :)

    -- Posted by dreadpirateroberts on Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 10:37 PM
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