City UTV ordinance tabled for second time

Monday, January 15, 2024
Banner Graphic/ERIC BERNSEE

An ordinance on the proposed use of UTVs within the City of Greencastle is spinning its wheels for the second time in two months.

After some 30 minutes of discussion again at the January City Council meeting Thursday night at City Hall, the new Council with four new members voted 5-1 to table Ordinance 2023-7 on second reading on a motion by Councilman David Masten and a second from Darrel Thomas.

Katherine Asbell, Tina Nicholson and Stacie Langdon added affirmative votes, while Vince Aguirre, the Council’s lone Democrat, voted against tabling the item for a second time.

New Mayor Lynda Dunbar put the tabling decision into perspective for about a dozen UTV owners in the audience hoping for passage.

“We’ve got a new City Council and a new mayor,” she reasoned. “We’re going to work to get this done.”

City officials have already made concessions on the ordinance, taking away the weight restriction to where it now reads that the vehicles can be no more than 2,500 pounds, while it was also noted that the Kubota versions of the UTV that the city and DePauw University own and operate -- 26 of them alone by DePauw -- can only run at 25 or 26 mph. That would put them in violation of the stipulation that the vehicles need to keep up with the posted speed limit, which is 35 mph most places around town.

“The real change,” City Attorney Laurie Hardwick said, “is that (UTV owners) don’t have to come back in to be inspected after three years.”

Ashley Sims, who served more or less as the spokesman for the pro-UTV group, questioned the need for the $100 city inspection fee and subsequent $35 registration fees in succeeding years. The Department of Natural Resources only charges $30 for three years, she noted.

“That’s where the sticker shock comes in,” Sims added.

“We’re still going to keep the inspection process,” Mayor Dunbar responded, noting that inspection entails checking for a valid driver’s license, insurance, seatbelts and lights among other things.

The timeframe prohibiting UTV use on city streets -- from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. -- was also called into question as UTV owners said they often go visit people or go to dinner and return home around 11 p.m., adding that in the summer they are out riding past that time.

Mayor Dunbar pointed out that most of the complaints received at City Hall about the proposed ordinance involve noise.

UTV owner Mike Curtis, who spoke extensively at the December Council session when the ordinance was first tabled on second reading, noted that Harley-Davidson motorcycles are allowed everywhere and “you can hear a Harley coming down the road for miles.”

Councilman Masten suggested it was “preposterous” that different regulations are in place in different municipalities like Rockville and Brazil.

“There should be more uniformity,” he said. “There needs to be a standard to this rather than going from community to community.”

For instance, it was noted that Parke County and Rockville do not post what streets UTVs are allowed to travel on, even though that is stipulated in the state statute, as noted by City Attorney Hardwick.

Masten noted that posting each street could be considered overkill.

“The whole notion of signage has been an issue across the country,” he said, referring to it as “sign pollution.”

Hardwick noted that the state statute requires the posting of streets on which UTVs are allowed “at the entrance to each road.”

It’s going to be an expense to the city, she added. Mayor Dunbar has suggested it could be as much as $5,000 to have the signs made and installed.

Masten suggested putting signage only at the main entrances to the city.

“Then they wouldn’t be allowed on other city streets,” Hardwick replied. “We have to comply with that provision.”

“If we had no cost in it, it would be a different story,” Masten said before his tabling motion, noting that Greencastle taxpayers have a stake in it because of the cost.

Aguirre told the UTV group he would be “happy to be an ally for you in the future” and even work to reduce fees.

Nicholson, meanwhile, noted that those owners in the audience have taken it upon themselves to be aware of the proposed city ordinance and its ramifications.

“You guys are educating yourselves,” the new councilor said. “We have to worry about all the other people. We’re not worried about your group, just everybody else who tries to push the limit.”

The group was asked how many UTV owners live in the city.

“One hundred or more,” Curtis responded from the audience. “Any road you ride along on a nice day, you’re going to pass two or three of them.”

Meanwhile, Oscar King Jr., the city’s water and wastewater superintendent, who is credited with initiating conversation about the legality of UTVs on city streets, clarified that the initial $100 inspection fee includes the $35 registration for the first year.

“I can make that clearer (in the ordinance),” Hardwick responded.

No one attending the Council meeting expressed opposition to the ordinance, although it was noted that City Hall has received complaints about it via email and phone calls

Prior to the tabling of the ordinance, Sims suggested one revision herself, saying that anyone under 18 years of age should be required to wear a helmet to operate a UTV as that is a state statute requirement.

Specifically excluded by the ordinance for use on city streets are golf carts, ATVs, three-wheelers, four-wheelers and slow-moving vehicles, all of which are not recreational off-highway vehicles and not allowable by state statute.

According to the ordinance, recreational off-highway vehicles shall:

• Be larger than 50 inches but less than 80 inches in width when measured from outside of tire rim to outside of tire rim.

• Have a dry weight less than 2,500 pounds.

• Be designed for travel on four non-highway or off-highway tires.

• Be equipped with such equipment as safety belts for the driver and all passengers, either side mirrors or a rear-view mirror, traditional steering wheel, two headlights, turn signals and at least one brake light.

Driver and passenger requirements include:

• Drivers shall be at least 18 years old and possess a valid operator’s license.

• Drivers shall possess proper insurance.

• Any driver or passenger must wear a seatbelt in accordance with Indiana law.

• No children requiring use of a harness seat are allowed as passengers.

As far as operations are concerned, recreational off-highway vehicles:

• Shall be driven on city streets and alleys only and not on berms, sidewalks, pathways or city grass.

• Are not permitted on city streets from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

• May not travel on Veterans Memorial Highway.

• Shall not be driven on state property, except while crossing at right angles for purposes of getting from one area to another.

Violations of the ordinance will include a $100 fine for a first offense, $250 fine and 60-day suspension from using the vehicles on city streets on a second violation and $500 fine and lifetime suspension for a third offense.

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  • This legislation still has many areas to be refined before passing.

    Question - If being 16 years or older for cars, trucks, etc. then why is the age of 18 or older being required for UTVs?

    -- Posted by Lookout on Mon, Jan 15, 2024, at 7:55 PM
  • What about a non-resident of Greencastle that rides their UTV into town?

    -- Posted by rbailey3 on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 12:59 PM
  • *

    rbailey3 as it's currently written you would still be required to register in Greencastle.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 2:49 PM
  • *

    You can read the most recent draft here:

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DDlq3LDiKCAsxkWvvw57gN3wS5NR3jKL&disco=AAABC3A...

    If anyone has questions or comments my email is vaguirre@cityofgreencastle.com

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 2:51 PM
  • And this guy freely parked on a handicap area. Which is also violation.

    -- Posted by tksutherlin11 on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 3:41 PM
  • Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a lot of good coming from this for the other 9,900 Greencastle residents. But hey, at least there's a councilman who wants to help reduce fees, so the townsfolk can subsidize their unlicensed vehicles and illegal parking. Could it be promises like that got him his one-vote margin?

    -- Posted by Bob Fensterheim on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 6:01 PM
  • I honestly don't see why anyone would want to drive a UTV in Greencastle, or how that would be fun. My question is, what's the statute that says every street must have a sign allowing UTVs? Are there any other cities with a UTV ordinance that have these signs? None as far as I know.

    -- Posted by Raker on Tue, Jan 16, 2024, at 8:14 PM
  • *

    Hi Bob, I'm sorry that advocating for fees to be more in line with neighboring municipalities upsets you. If you think this is unethical to do during a public meeting I'd love to have a conversation to better understand your perspective. Generally speaking I think we need to be flexible in local government. Sometimes that might mean passing an imperfect ordinance and adjusting it along the way. I'd love to have you at the next council meeting to share your opinions.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 12:05 AM
  • What will the "fee" money be used for?

    -- Posted by Jaxks on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 2:38 AM
  • Vincent, very informative & appreciate posting the minutes. Could this be done every month? When will the city meetings be posted publicly on youtube? Terre Haute City has their own channel they post on and heritage lake does an excellent job with their board meetings posted live on youtube.

    -- Posted by smartmom on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 7:51 AM
  • *

    Smartmom, my plan is to post the council packet on my Facebook page every month along with minutes when I receive them. I'm told the mayor and clerk treasurer are working on a streaming software to begin streaming the meetings again. I don't know much more than that but I am excited. I tried to record the audio of our first meeting but my microphone really only picked up my voice and not the whole room.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 7:55 AM
  • bottom line this all for De Pauw , as always !!

    -- Posted by Falcon9 on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 8:47 AM
  • DePauw has bleed the residents of Greencastle for ever, so why do you think it would ever change.

    -- Posted by becker on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 11:53 AM
  • But DePauw uses their UTV’s for campus work only and should be no comparison to the Ccity.

    -- Posted by Nit on Wed, Jan 17, 2024, at 5:32 PM
  • Nit; I'm not sure DePauw uses their UTVs for campus work only; I have seen them at Headly's and Black Lumber neither are even close to DePauw campus. Vincent Aguirre; Passing this ordinance is not in the best interest for the vast majority of Greencastle. You have a handful of residents who are in favor but honestly you have to ask why? The quick answer is to play. Not all but there is a high percentage of UTV riders who seem to think the road is just another play area. I was driving on Albin Pond Rd. and looked in the rearview and saw a line of Red and Blue lights coming up behind me (fast) and as I slowed several UTVs went around me well above the posted speed limit. On average an automobile will pay 1600 to 1800 dollars over the first 5 years in excise tax [ excise taxes are used to maintain roads, streets]; How much excise tax will a UTV pay since they don't require license plates? I hope you and the other council members think about the 9900 people who chose to live in Greencastle who simply don't want these things on our streets. FYI - what Rockville does is up to Rockville and Greencastle isn't required to follow.

    -- Posted by Alfred E. on Thu, Jan 18, 2024, at 8:51 AM
  • *

    Trying to survive, please contact me: vaguirre@cityofgreencastle.com

    (765) 276-8072

    I would love to talk.

    My stance this far has been based on 4th ward residents and businesses owners contacting me directly. I've intentionally tried to gain perspective on both sides from as many 4th ward residents as possible. If you're not comfortable speaking to me I encourage you to speak to your councilor or an at large councilor that you are more comfortable speaking to.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Thu, Jan 18, 2024, at 9:14 AM
  • *

    Also, the next council meeting will be on February 8th at 7pm. I highly suggest attending to voice and opinions before the vote.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Thu, Jan 18, 2024, at 9:17 AM
  • If a Rockville resident or Danville resident travels to Greencastle on their utv to visit one of our premiere restaurants for an evening dinner, how would they be informed of these additional inspections, laws, ordinance to be here? It just doesn't seem enforceable. I'm pro UTV but align with State DNR law or don't do it at all. Just my 2 cents.

    -- Posted by smartmom on Fri, Jan 19, 2024, at 8:33 AM
  • *

    smartmom, that question was brought up at the council meeting. The answer from that night is that first violations under certain circumstances could be let off with a warning. However, after someone is received a warning there then clearly aware of the code.

    -- Posted by Vincent Aguirre on Fri, Jan 19, 2024, at 1:12 PM
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